tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post6062460499126274457..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: More about egg symbols in Etruria and the rest of the classical worldGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-13837716010335667152009-09-23T16:12:31.600-05:002009-09-23T16:12:31.600-05:00I'll supply you some leads to references as we...I'll supply you some leads to references as well.<br /><br />A link between the labyrinth and its labrys on the one hand and the underworld on the other is impossible to not trip over in literature (eg. <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=znCln8NlBjwC&pg=PA36&dq=%22associations+between+the+labyrinth%22#v=onepage&q=%22associations%20between%20the%20labyrinth%22&f=false" Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-28190850022465030032009-09-23T15:53:00.813-05:002009-09-23T15:53:00.813-05:00The opposite of Hineininterpretieren is being so a...The opposite of Hineininterpretieren is being so afraid of new, "dangerous" ideas that the scope of one's knowledge stagnates completely.<br /><br />I'm not <i>au courrant</i> on who keeps what position. If my head was filled with this presentday, political nonsense, I'd never have time to explore what really matters - history. So I honestly don't know whether I'm Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-77376167418650520072009-09-23T12:10:46.211-05:002009-09-23T12:10:46.211-05:00Yes, and the hammer/mallet icon is a derivative of...<b>Yes, and the hammer/mallet icon is a derivative of the labrys, the symbol of the underworld, the symbol of the labyrinth. The labyrinth is the Minoan conception of the underworld, the winding entrails of the earth (cf. extispicy).</b> <br /><br />Are these your own ideas? <br />Combining<br />Comparing the hammer with the Minoan labrys <br />+ <br />Comparing the mythological (Cretan) ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-76932539854758623052009-09-22T17:18:57.178-05:002009-09-22T17:18:57.178-05:00Yes, and the hammer/mallet icon is a derivative of...Yes, and the hammer/mallet icon is a derivative of the labrys, the symbol of the underworld, the symbol of the labyrinth. The labyrinth is the Minoan conception of the underworld, the winding entrails of the earth (cf. extispicy).<br /><br />Some Etruscanists take the symbolism far too literally and dwell on the act of hitting dead souls with mallets, which I find makes me want to hit <i>them</i>Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-34614651705223225502009-09-22T13:34:44.157-05:002009-09-22T13:34:44.157-05:00In:
De Grummond: Etruscan Myth, Sacred History, a...In: <br />De Grummond: Etruscan Myth, Sacred History, and Legend, page 57, <br />I found a Turms-with-hammer. <br /><br />I must have overlooked it the first time. <br /><br />Evidence of Turms being Xarun.ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-27007657421342096052009-07-15T14:42:34.944-05:002009-07-15T14:42:34.944-05:00Certainly your "Interpretatio Tusca" pos...Certainly your "Interpretatio Tusca" post must have helped some of your readers. The overlapping functions of <b>Turan-Uni-Thalna</b> and other groups of entities, like perhaps <b>Turms Aitas-Xarun</b> are indeed part of a big jig saw puzzle. <br />There also must have existed ancient pantheons of the other peoples of the peninsula that were later assimilated by the Romans, like the ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-2317659378663391262009-07-13T20:06:30.384-05:002009-07-13T20:06:30.384-05:00As language enthusiasts, we know that languages ca...As language enthusiasts, we know that languages can come into contact and affect each other, one often becoming substrate to another. Words are thus borrowed. This is no different than religious contact.<br /><br />In Asia, the Chinese goddess of mercy, Guan Yin, is often <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=rNcNtSowTZEC&pg=PA201&dq=mary+guan+yin" rel="nofollow">equated with the Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-32697196642157757102009-07-13T10:53:25.635-05:002009-07-13T10:53:25.635-05:00From my high school days I remember Hermes guiding...From my high school days I remember Hermes guiding the dead to Charon, who then took over. <br /><br />Nothing wrong with the <i>idea</i> of <b>Turms</b> being Hermes AND Charun (especially <b>Turms Aitas</b>). <br />Turms almost always wears the winged sandals and the winged helmet. <br />However, I never saw him with <b>Xarun</b>s hammer. <br /><br />So I doubt <b>Turms</b> is <b>Xarun</b>. <brZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-8792036521977713792009-07-12T17:51:19.981-05:002009-07-12T17:51:19.981-05:00Try reading Jannot, Religion in Ancient Etruria (2...Try reading Jannot, <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=QAeKPQ8stZIC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=turms+" rel="nofollow"><i>Religion in Ancient Etruria</i> (2005), p.177</a> under the heading <i>Several gods with a single name</i>: "The ultimate oddity is that sometimes two gods function under the same name. Turms designates the messenger of Tinia, but the same name, attached to Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-34064865096072758902009-07-12T17:16:13.657-05:002009-07-12T17:16:13.657-05:00Xaru(n) is found in short inscriptions such as on ...<i>Xaru(n) is found in short inscriptions such as on this vessel or on this mural.</i> <br /><br />I have seen many "beautiful" <b>Xarun</b>s. <br />(This is a fun part of Etruscology!). <br />I have been searching for evidence of <b>Xarun</b> originally having been <b>Turms</b>.ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-66662823357505338752009-07-12T16:43:43.890-05:002009-07-12T16:43:43.890-05:00I just wanted to check the shape of a swan egg. Yo...I just wanted to check the shape of a swan egg. You mentioned specifically the swan as a not well understood creature on mirrors. <br /><br />IF swan eggs were big, white and round, then we could expect this bird to be of more significance.<br />But alas...<br /><br />I just go on. <br /><br />The egg is an almost universal symbol of creation / rebirth. <br />I read about Dogon myths. Interesting.ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-21703952440386426972009-07-11T22:12:21.280-05:002009-07-11T22:12:21.280-05:00Xaru(n) is found in short inscriptions such as on ...<b>Xaru(n)</b> is found in short inscriptions such as <a href="http://www.easypedia.gr/el/images/shared/6/63/Akhilleus_Charun_Cdm_Paris_2783.jpg" rel="nofollow">on this vessel</a> or <a href="http://es.geocities.com/tuscia/imagenes/charun.png" rel="nofollow">on this mural</a>.<br /><br /><b><i>"Egg shape: Locus P: PX+2PY=2ZY ; PZ etc being understood as the distance."</i></b><br /><br /Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-42844012157634550212009-07-11T18:10:36.190-05:002009-07-11T18:10:36.190-05:00I should add, Turms is likely the native Etruscan ...<i>I should add, Turms is likely the native Etruscan name for Charun.</i> <br /><br />I searched the Internet. <br />Turms is mentioned as a psychopomp, but otherwise I could not find any Charun related texts*. <br />Do you know any? <br />This Turms not wearing winged sandals, but holding an egg, seems to be good evidence for him being Charun. <br /><br />More on eggs.<br />I could not find manyZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-57376285430895522172009-07-03T14:52:34.576-05:002009-07-03T14:52:34.576-05:00I should add, Turms is likely the native Etruscan ...I should add, Turms is likely the native Etruscan name for Charun.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-82425526617447405762009-07-03T14:49:54.459-05:002009-07-03T14:49:54.459-05:00Oops, you're right! I'm a dumbdumb. I over...Oops, you're right! I'm a dumbdumb. I overlooked what Turms was holding in his four-finger hand in this badly drawn line drawing, being so focussed on Hercle and that "amphora stone". <br /><br />Yes, sorry, that could very well be our egg of immortality which makes sense considering that <i>Turms</i>, an underworld deity, is holding it. I'd have to see the original mirror Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-81383277779838170892009-07-03T14:34:42.963-05:002009-07-03T14:34:42.963-05:00Since the boy has his left foot placed on what app...<i>Since the boy has his left foot placed on what appears to be a stone just like augurs would do in Etruria (and like Kalkhas does in a scene on a bronze mirror that you're remembering), it stands to reason that the object that he's holding is none other than a sheep's liver.</i> <br /><br />I remembered this one (more or less), <b>with</b> the grapes and the "amphora". <brZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-57092347300699150342009-07-03T11:40:43.113-05:002009-07-03T11:40:43.113-05:00Yes, the bronze mirror from Caecina, displayed on ...Yes, <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=TVAtdzbV-yIC&pg=PA184&dq=%22the+boy+hercle+is+shown+with+his+alter+ego+vile%22" rel="nofollow">the bronze mirror from Caecina</a>, displayed on page 184, hastily drawn as if by a kindergartener with an <a href="http://images.google.ca/images?sourceid=navclient&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4DACA_en-GBCA278CA278&q=etch-a%20sketch&um=1&ie=Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-11751602341795016992009-07-03T10:38:17.222-05:002009-07-03T10:38:17.222-05:00Hello Glen.
You probably found this a long time ...Hello Glen. <br /><br />You probably found this a long time ago. <br />Just in case you did not: <br /><br />De Grummond: Etruscan Myth, Sacred History, and Legend. <br />I found a mirror. On it are Turms, Hercle and Vila.<br />Turms is holding a "round object", <br />and Vila. <br />The round object is, I think, an egg. <br />Hercle holding "something". <br />Hercle has a ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.com