tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post5798442349111926080..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Novilara Stele remains a mysteryGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-2572784239431828202015-08-02T09:16:57.597-05:002015-08-02T09:16:57.597-05:00Someone noted that the sign R which occurs in the ...Someone noted that the sign R which occurs in the text twice, and which is transcribed as a d, looks like an anachronism. Neither western Greek nor Etruscan alphabets had such a letter. The western Greeks did have a P with a short downward stroke, but not a full R. It resembles the R in the Oscan alphabet, which however was somewhat later. Moreover, it's in Oscan that this letter stands for Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-17410796342927588032011-06-02T23:58:31.089-05:002011-06-02T23:58:31.089-05:00Ah, I see the detail you're seeing now. You ha...Ah, I see the detail you're seeing now. You have an eagle's eye.<br /><br />However, for the sake of devil's advocacy, how would you debate against treating the different number of strokes in these "one-legged" letters as merely scribal variation for a single letter <i>mu</i>?<br /><br />Afterall, Egyptians wrote <i>n</i> (ie. the wavy water symbol) occasionally with five Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-84181622310779021812011-06-02T22:31:10.101-05:002011-06-02T22:31:10.101-05:00Forgot to clarify: I'm considering san to be /...Forgot to clarify: I'm considering <i>san</i> to be /s/, and this odd sign that resembles either a <i>san</i> with a short left leg or an <i>em</i> with one stroke too few.Casey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-25536737648753287022011-06-02T20:45:17.282-05:002011-06-02T20:45:17.282-05:00No, you misinterpreted. The letter with the shorte...<b><i>No, you misinterpreted. The letter with the shorter leg is definitely "m" in order to distinguish it from </i>san.</b><br /><br />This objection confuses me. Surely the first letter of <i>mimnis</i> is neither the same as the last letter, nor the same as the penultimate letter of what I transliterated as <i>neši</i> and <i>tišu</i>! The letter transliterated as "m" has 4Casey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-55934393156224455312011-06-02T17:32:48.188-05:002011-06-02T17:32:48.188-05:00Seadog Driftwood: "Why are there not more pic...<b>Seadog Driftwood: <i>"Why are there not more pictures? Is flash-photographing the stele in its current state at the Museo Preistorico Pigorini not allowed? Or is interest in North Picene just that limited?"</i></b><br /><br />I gauge that it's caused by a few idiotic things: antiquated copyright laws, ivory-tower elitism and human laziness, for starters.<br /><br />I believe thatGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-20156660096731339302011-05-30T17:23:53.765-05:002011-05-30T17:23:53.765-05:00PHONETIC ANALYSIS:
The letter transliterated as “...PHONETIC ANALYSIS:<br /> The letter transliterated as “c” is highly unlikely to have the same phonetic identity as “k”, considering the minimal pairs <i><b>ca</b>arestades</i> – <i><b>ka</b>latne</i>(<i>nis</i>) and <i>balesten<b>ac</b></i> – {<i>i/l</i>}<i><b>ak</b>ut</i>. It may represent a voiced velar stop, as was the case for “C” in Early and Classical Latin.<br /><br /> While there are onlyCasey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-11789399756842551112011-05-30T17:23:23.832-05:002011-05-30T17:23:23.832-05:00TEXTUAL ANALYSIS:
LINE 2
The last letter of rotne...TEXTUAL ANALYSIS:<br />LINE 2<br /> The last letter of <i>rotne</i>{<i>m/š</i>} has a long final stroke, i.e. at top left of the letter. It is possible that it is a damaged or misspelled “š”, but this seems unlikely, as the final stroke is clearly visible in 3 out of the 4 pictures. The most likely reading is <i>rotne<b>m</b></i>.<br /> The presence of a dot in the “o” of <i>rotne</i>{<i>m/š</i>}Casey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-67440921879575896202011-05-30T17:22:53.275-05:002011-05-30T17:22:53.275-05:00For the past week or so, I've been delving dee...For the past week or so, I've been delving deeper into this stele, and have found a great deal more uncertainties than I expected.<br /><br /> First, I tried to find as many relatively good-quality pictures of the stele as possible. I was disappointed to only find four legible pictures (http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3459/novilara.jpg , http://www.cez-okno.net/files/clanok-subory-2010/Casey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-86486440577642020202009-02-20T14:39:00.000-06:002009-02-20T14:39:00.000-06:00So let's see if we can figure out anything for wor...So let's see if we can figure out anything for word order. Most languages on the planet are either SOV or SVO.I'm pretty sure that's true of this particular linguistic area as well. Since we're reduced to guessing, at this point, the best guess we can make is that the word order is either SOV or SVO. Let's try to break things down.<BR/><BR/>mimnis . edut <BR/><BR/>We start by assuming that this Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-45767579919233095362009-02-19T21:54:00.000-06:002009-02-19T21:54:00.000-06:00You wrote: "A few days ago, I received a mail...You wrote: "A few days ago, I received a mail concerning the North Picene language and the Novilara Stele" so I wondered if he had written you as he had done to me a while back:<BR/><BR/>>><BR/>Dear Ms. Gill, or anybody else reading this email,<BR/><BR/>please find attached my text on Novilara stele. I am addressing you > in consequence of finding a nice article about NovilaraNSGillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01884772407328963300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-37982413582328233902009-02-19T12:32:00.000-06:002009-02-19T12:32:00.000-06:00Might I ask: Who is Dusan Polansky?Might I ask: Who is Dusan Polansky?Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-63375991811828498682009-02-18T21:42:00.000-06:002009-02-18T21:42:00.000-06:00Has Dusan Polansky written you about the stele?Has Dusan Polansky written you about the stele?NSGillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01884772407328963300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-33251133109705632732009-02-10T12:33:00.000-06:002009-02-10T12:33:00.000-06:00Two more things, Mordrigar.As is shown on Omniglot...Two more things, Mordrigar.<BR/><BR/>As is shown on Omniglot regarding Italic scripts, the only form of "u" used in North Picene is equivalent to the South Picene character transcribed as "uu". Whether or not this is important, I'm not sure...<BR/><BR/>The other thing to point out is the last word of line 5, "rotnem/š/ši". The stele is chipped where the last character(s) would be, so the ending Casey Goransonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15515485425230479050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-45108821854832077592009-02-09T03:32:00.000-06:002009-02-09T03:32:00.000-06:00Some phonotactical observations.• Boustrophedon is...Some phonotactical observations.<BR/>• Boustrophedon is out of the question since <EM>rotnem</EM> is found on both lines 2 and 5.<BR/>• The rarity of <EM>k g</EM> is striking, only 3 counts each (vs. 34 of <EM>t</EM>) and all of them adjacent to <EM>a</EM> or <EM>r</EM>.<BR/>• I agree with the conclusion that <EM>-ten</EM> is a suffix. Possibly <EM>-rion</EM> as well.<BR/>• Also, the <EM>m : n</Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-71400637238604324052009-02-09T01:56:00.000-06:002009-02-09T01:56:00.000-06:00So I've been doing a little research on this. ...So I've been doing a little research on this. There doesn't seem to be much information out there. What's worse, no one can seem to agree on a transcription. Some sources transcribe g as c. The word edut is also transcribes as erut. There are two different s sounds. In one case, kru(v)s, both letters are found. There's also ambiguity over whether one of these s letters should be Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-72315186827015447742009-02-08T12:25:00.000-06:002009-02-08T12:25:00.000-06:00Looks like the ending may be -em, not just -m. Eve...Looks like the ending may be -em, not just -m. Every word ending in -m also ends in -em. I think I'll have more comments soon.Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.com