tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post5150449781303621765..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: What are Etruscans doing with those eggs?Glen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-39856224498964304372012-07-07T14:58:17.329-05:002012-07-07T14:58:17.329-05:00There's a lot of data here to sift over. Take ...There's a lot of data here to sift over. Take your time.<br /><br />In the meanwhile, there's no such thing as "Rasna's book" but there is Rex Wallace's <a href="http://www.amazon.ca/Zikh-Rasna-Etruscan-Language-Inscriptions/dp/0974792748" rel="nofollow"><i>Zikh Rasna: A Manual of the Etruscan Language and Inscriptions</i></a> for a hefty hundred or so smackeroos. No pdfGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-60370848829142982772012-07-05T22:58:29.193-05:002012-07-05T22:58:29.193-05:00I appreciate the detailed response; when I get som...I appreciate the detailed response; when I get some more time later tonight, I'll try to respond in full as well.<br /><br />But for now – and again, I wish there was a more appropriate place to ask this - I had a couple of questions that maybe you can help me out with. I know you wrote a post about it a while back, but did you actually pick up a copy of Rasna's Etruscan language/Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637219916951507573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-2909872575154575682012-07-05T16:01:17.953-05:002012-07-05T16:01:17.953-05:00Whoops. Pesky errors again. "The first senten...Whoops. Pesky errors again. "The first sentence says to the effect 'Thrice [he] has overseen [the] people. Nine times [he] has [?]ed.'" should be ammended to "The first sentence says to the effect 'Thrice [he] has overseen [the] people.' <b>while the second sentence reads</b> 'Nine times [he] has [?]ed.'"Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-80319352466798643112012-07-05T15:50:53.473-05:002012-07-05T15:50:53.473-05:00I understand. Blogger's interface remains prob...I understand. Blogger's interface remains problematic and has been at a standstill since Google took over.<br /><br />So now responding to your <a href="http://indoeuropa.blogspot.com/2012/07/response-to-gg.html" rel="nofollow">offsite rebuttal</a>, I'll begin by admitting that I've since let go of my previous ideas about a connection to the Dioscouri and a plurality of eggs would Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-87015577819754345562012-07-04T17:23:54.615-05:002012-07-04T17:23:54.615-05:00I original wrote my response in a word processor, ...I original wrote my response in a word processor, and used a lot italics for ease of reading - I knew my formatting wouldn't transfer over to this comment, so I actually just went ahead and posted it on a blog that I just created: http://indoeuropa.blogspot.com/. I'll post the original here if you want me to - but I'm too lazy to go back and insert HTML tags (there were a ton of Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637219916951507573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-26814338340886868192012-07-03T14:26:26.426-05:002012-07-03T14:26:26.426-05:00Other instances of canθ suggest a verb closely rel...Other instances of <b>canθ</b> suggest a verb closely related to the more attested form <b>can</b> 'to carry'. It may very well be that the meanings of the two verbs are identical or near identical. If identical, we'd then have 'of the Bearer of Eggs'. In <a href="http://sites.google.com/site/paleoglot/Home/EtrDictionary.swf" rel="nofollow">my online Etruscan dictionary</a>, IGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-89422719693494686192012-07-03T14:25:55.073-05:002012-07-03T14:25:55.073-05:00My views have evolved since last I commented on th...My views have evolved since last I commented on this artifact and it'll be constructive to brainstorm more on it.<br /><br />But first, let's get clear on the grammar. The suffix <b>-cva</b> is an allomorph of <b>-xva</b> and used after aspirated stops. Based on the bilingual Pyrgi correspondence between Punic <i>ḥkkbm</i> 'stars' and <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-47848860592897809442012-07-02T15:45:20.710-05:002012-07-02T15:45:20.710-05:00I know this post is a few years old, but I'm j...I know this post is a few years old, but I'm just now encountering it, and it led me to a few pretty cool revelations (more on those if you're interested). I'll say at the outset that I believe you're correct that luθ means 'egg' - though I would expand its meaning to include the less literal 'seed' as well (I'm really tempted to see a connection with Grk Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637219916951507573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-6274840942474222372009-07-03T10:50:15.543-05:002009-07-03T10:50:15.543-05:00For a connection between the "morning and eve...For a connection between the "morning and evening stars" and the Dioskouroi, see for example <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=Qrc3AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=%22this+relation+to+the+rising+and+setting+of+the+sun+also+motivated+their+naturalistic+identification+with+the+Morning+and+Evening+Stars.%22&source=bl&ots=QHb45wQMc9&sig=e-AQ1KRkW8gA1_UnRrfcKthrOr4Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-34384873103888764262009-07-02T13:14:23.592-05:002009-07-02T13:14:23.592-05:00Castor and Pollux were associated with the "m...<i>Castor and Pollux were associated with the "morning and evening stars" (aka. the planet Venus). Surely this myth is from the Near East where astrology emanated. If so, then surely the Etruscans, coming themselves from the Near East, brought some similar myth with them in some form.</i> <br /><br />Exciting.<br />Do you mean the Greeks borrowed this myth from the near east before, sayZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-87368650247111018372009-07-01T17:49:17.209-05:002009-07-01T17:49:17.209-05:00Castor and Pollux were associated with the "m...Castor and Pollux were associated with the "morning and evening stars" (aka. the planet Venus). Surely this myth is from the Near East where astrology emanated. If so, then surely the Etruscans, coming themselves from the Near East, brought some similar myth with them in some form.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-26561329113400371432009-06-30T10:51:11.915-05:002009-06-30T10:51:11.915-05:00I think you overlooked an important issue. The fac...<i>I think you overlooked an important issue. The fact that the Etruscans often used Greek names for deities doesn't necessarily mean that there was a "gap" in the pantheon at all. For example, while the Greek name Aita was used, Calus appears to be the native name to refer to the underworld. You're merely assuming there's a gap.</i> <br /><br />We know of equivalents for ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-82295735154324548972009-06-29T17:51:33.430-05:002009-06-29T17:51:33.430-05:00Hans: "If there was some egg cult before the ...<b>Hans: <i>"If there was some egg cult before the Hellenization, it is only natural the sons of Tin became this important. As they did not replace any true Etruscan deities, they filled a gap."</i></b><br /><br />I think you overlooked an important issue. The fact that the Etruscans often used Greek names for deities doesn't necessarily mean that there was a "gap" in the Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-14433112189482673222009-06-28T15:29:00.270-05:002009-06-28T15:29:00.270-05:00Then I guess we're in agreement, more or less....<i>Then I guess we're in agreement, more or less.</i> <br /><br />We are.<br /><br />Still I think I did not well explain why <b>castur</b> and <b>puluce</b> do not really interest me. Certainly it is clear they were very important to the Etruscans. <br />If there was some egg cult <i>before</i> the Hellenization, it is only natural the sons of Tin became this important. As they did not ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-68769349734348900262009-06-27T17:36:45.343-05:002009-06-27T17:36:45.343-05:00Hans: "Did I overlook something? Is there kno...<b>Hans: <i>"Did I overlook something? Is there knowledge about Etruscan egg-rebirth beliefs? I am not talking about Greek deities like Castor and Polydeukes."</i></b><br /><br />Yes, you overlooked the countless pottery artifacts with Greek themes and deities but distinctly Etruscan inscriptions and spelling. This ironically includes pottery representing what you simply call "Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-22033258754945130592009-06-27T13:35:04.515-05:002009-06-27T13:35:04.515-05:00Knowledge is not "bias" in the usual sen...<i>Knowledge is not "bias" in the usual sense of the word. People's feelings though certainly are, and they're neither here nor there logically speaking.</i> <br /><br />Did I overlook something?<br />Is there <b>knowledge</b> about <i>Etruscan</i> egg-rebirth beliefs? I am not talking about <i>Greek</i> deities like Castor and Polydeukes. <br /><br /><br /><i>The silly, ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-80898240546506343562009-06-26T16:27:23.669-05:002009-06-26T16:27:23.669-05:00Hans: "First of all: This is not MY pet theor...<b>Hans: <i>"First of all: This is not MY pet theory. It is just what my friends saw, These friends were NOT biased by pre-imprinted symbol-of-new-life ideas (like you and me)."</i></b><br /><br />Knowledge is not "bias" in the usual sense of the word. People's feelings though certainly are, and they're neither here nor there logically speaking.<br /><br />Hearsay and Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-48333797660977305022009-06-26T13:17:03.948-05:002009-06-26T13:17:03.948-05:00Hello Glen.
A decent sketch of Etruscan grammar ...Hello Glen.<br /><br /><br /><i>A decent sketch of Etruscan grammar is found here, derived from Larissa and Giuliano Bonfante's books. Familiarize yourself with it.</i> <br /><br />I have seen this, and much more on Etruscan Grammar. <br />After weeding out all the nonsense presented on other sites, not much remains. And I found many contradictions (Like <b>rasna</b> being "Etruscan"ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-75487624861728259982009-06-25T21:38:10.734-05:002009-06-25T21:38:10.734-05:00Sorry, the above should read "alveolar stops&...Sorry, the above should read "alveolar stops", not "alveolar dental stops".Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-17928737259512504812009-06-25T21:00:19.127-05:002009-06-25T21:00:19.127-05:00I had another thought I should share. It might cla...I had another thought I should share. It might clarify things about <b>*e</b>-less locatives when a postclitic is applied.<br /><br />In the context of the <i>Liber Linteus</i> where the word <b>luθti</b> is found, we also find another curious inessive locative <b>haθrθi</b>. Since its simple locative <b>haθe</b> ~ <b>hanθe</b> is found elsewhere in the same document, the only explanation I have Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-53394225041005894812009-06-25T20:44:27.483-05:002009-06-25T20:44:27.483-05:00"Someday in near future I will probably find ...<b><i>"Someday in near future I will probably find good books about Etruscan grammar (and the money to buy them)."</i></b><br /><br />Why must you wait for money on books when you clearly have access to the internet which by its nature houses tonnes of valuable information on every topic imaginable!?<br /><br />You need to <i>first</i> familiarize yourself with the status quo Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-42941028843795735952009-06-25T16:02:12.299-05:002009-06-25T16:02:12.299-05:00Ad hoc. I don't see the need to theorize endin...<i>Ad hoc. I don't see the need to theorize endingless locatives in Etruscan based on a sole example. Stick to the grammatical model: simple locatives end in -e.</i><br /><br />I do my best, Glen. <br />You presented a locative ending in <b>0i</b>, <b>tarxnal0i</b>, yourself. It seemed quite normal to me that a theta following another theta become a tau. <br /><br /><i>However, *luθe would ZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-85556724402624054632009-06-24T16:31:49.192-05:002009-06-24T16:31:49.192-05:00Hans: "So there is a second lu0 here. It look...<b>Hans: "So there is a second lu0 here. It looks like a locative."</b><br /><br />Ad hoc. I don't see the need to theorize endingless locatives in Etruscan based on a sole example. Stick to the grammatical model: simple locatives end in <b>-e</b>.<br /><br />However, <b>*luθe</b> would mean "before/on/at an egg". Instead we either find the word in the endingless Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-48145360031761093142009-06-24T13:59:00.701-05:002009-06-24T13:59:00.701-05:00All these speculations are very vacuous without a...All these speculations are very vacuous without a good understanding of surrounding historical context to go on.<br /><br />Blond was in fact more common in the classical world of the Mediterranean than you think. Read <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=9Z6vCGbf66YC&pg=PA154&dq=%22light+hair+also+was+associated+with+health+and+youthfulness%22" rel="nofollow"><i>Encyclopedia of HairGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-34002351374503435642009-06-24T13:34:32.079-05:002009-06-24T13:34:32.079-05:00The full text in the LL reads:
(blank lines, new...The full text in the LL reads:<br /><br /><br />(blank lines, new paragraph)<br />eslem.za0rumis'.acale.tins'.in.s'arle<br /><b>lu0ti</b>.rax.ture.acil.catica0.<b>lu0</b>.cel0im<br />xim.scuxie.acil.hutnis'.painiem<br />anc.marti0.sylal.<br />(end of paragraph) <br /><br />So there is a second <b>lu0</b> here. It looks like a locative. <br /><br />As these are the only <b>lu0</b>sZUhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06733661299497804284noreply@blogger.com