tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post4789255047204369699..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Syncope and QAR in Mid IEGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-62526279812663926442008-01-29T00:05:00.000-06:002008-01-29T00:05:00.000-06:00This might be, by far, the longest comment ever cr...This might be, by far, the longest comment ever created in the history of Blogger, hahaha. Bon apétit, mes camerades.<BR/><BR/><B>Rob: <I>"The question is, what would cause the retraction of stress? Is it a conditioned or an unconditioned sound change? If the former, what were the conditions?"</I></B><BR/><BR/>If there is a similar retraction of stress seen in Narten presents: <B>*bhērti</B> "he Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-63371687706093161732008-01-28T14:01:00.000-06:002008-01-28T14:01:00.000-06:00Glen: "To me, *dems and similar forms seem to be c...<B>Glen: <I>"To me, *dems and similar forms seem to be caused by a retraction of stress from an originally accented case ending *-ós towards the stem. A former alternation of accent would then explain the alternation of *o and *e in the stem. I can't see any other solution that makes sense."</I></B><BR/><BR/>The question is, what would cause the retraction of stress? Is it a conditioned or an Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-3999607918457091582008-01-25T14:55:00.000-06:002008-01-25T14:55:00.000-06:00Rob: "What do you think were the phonological cond...<B>Rob: <I>"What do you think were the phonological conditions by which such ablaut could have arisen?"</I></B><BR/><BR/>To me, <B>*dems</B> and similar forms seem to be caused by a retraction of stress from an originally accented case ending <B>*-ós</B> towards the stem. A former alternation of accent would then explain the alternation of <B>*o</B> and <B>*e</B> in the stem. I can't see any Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-90820229030861125582008-01-25T09:15:00.000-06:002008-01-25T09:15:00.000-06:00Glen: "A relationship between gender and ablaut is...<B>Glen: <I>"A relationship between gender and ablaut is pretty obscure considering animate genitive *dem-s "of the house". Whereas, a connection between ablaut and accent (assuming an earlier stress accent)is quite readily apparent and intuitive. It would seem that the retraction of accent to preceding syllables after Syncope is the optimal explanation for the ablauting genitive ending."</I></B>Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-1632659973525951692008-01-24T18:31:00.000-06:002008-01-24T18:31:00.000-06:00First of all, great article! Very interesting, rea...First of all, great article! Very interesting, realistic stuff.<BR/><BR/>I like the VRs > V:R theory. Something we see in Greek, and therefore feels very natural.<BR/><BR/><I>I suspect forms like *wedéns and *dréus reveal an earlier distinction between the animate genitive, in *-ós, and the inanimate genitive, in *-s. Forms such as *udnós and *drwós would then represent a dialectal innovation of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-54877815145651487722008-01-24T15:48:00.000-06:002008-01-24T15:48:00.000-06:00Rob: "I suspect forms like *wedéns and *dréus reve...<B>Rob: <I>"I suspect forms like *wedéns and *dréus reveal an earlier distinction between the animate genitive, in *-ós, and the inanimate genitive, in *-s."</I></B><BR/><BR/>A relationship between gender and ablaut is pretty obscure considering <I>animate</I> genitive <B>*dem-s</B> "of the house". Whereas, a connection between ablaut and accent (assuming an earlier stress accent)is quite readilyGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-23834770169357881212008-01-24T12:42:00.000-06:002008-01-24T12:42:00.000-06:00Follow-up:I wonder if the Hittite form witenas rep...Follow-up:<BR/><BR/>I wonder if the Hittite form <I>witenas</I> represents <B>*w@déns</B> (where '@' represents schwa) as opposed to <B>*wedéns</B>. This may have an important implication: the dialect that gave rise to Hittite may have separated from the rest of IE before the advent of syllabic resonants.<BR/><BR/>- RobRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-25565587998082987122008-01-24T12:29:00.000-06:002008-01-24T12:29:00.000-06:00I suspect forms like *wedéns and *dréus reveal an ...I suspect forms like <B>*wedéns</B> and <B>*dréus</B> reveal an earlier distinction between the animate genitive, in <B>*-ós</B>, and the inanimate genitive, in <B>*-s</B>. Forms such as <B>*udnós</B> and <B>*drwós</B> would then represent a dialectal innovation of regularizing the animate genitive across both genders. What do you think?<BR/><BR/>- RobRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-12506418820166955152008-01-24T12:16:00.000-06:002008-01-24T12:16:00.000-06:00This has to do with one of a few rules I notice co...This has to do with one of a few rules I notice concerning the loss of some laryngeals during Syncope. I call this "Laryngeal Vocalization" where laryngeals vocalize and become vowels in some cases. If <B>*k-</B> in late MIE were aspirated and labialized <B>*hʷ</B> (> PIE <B>*h₃</B>) were pronounced with full lip-rounding (unlike at the PIE stage where the rounding would have been "mild" to Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-32095182407580961842008-01-24T11:43:00.000-06:002008-01-24T11:43:00.000-06:00I'm curious why you have earlier /kʰ/ for PIE k, a...I'm curious why you have earlier /kʰ/ for PIE k, and /hʷ/ for w.goofyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760721504519661112noreply@blogger.com