tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post2740214571365005028..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: The Lost Vowels of Pre-Etruscan SyncopeGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-42750225300896200022008-09-17T18:37:00.000-05:002008-09-17T18:37:00.000-05:00Tropylium: "Not back-and-forth flip-flopping, but ...<B>Tropylium: <I>"Not back-and-forth flip-flopping, but still a change."</I></B><BR/><BR/>"Changing" and "flip-flopping" are slightly different concepts. A case of bad wording, I guess.<BR/><BR/>At any rate, whatever happened in Etruscan there appears to be a neutralization in aspiration of word-final stops.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-20071992621693200142008-09-16T05:18:00.000-05:002008-09-16T05:18:00.000-05:00-ax from *-aku and -θ from *-ta / *-ti all introdu...-ax from *-aku and -θ from *-ta / *-ti all introduce aspiration. Not <EM>back-and-forth</EM> flip-flopping, but still a change. On first glance, it looks a bit like "aspiration develops before a vowel" but you might have a better idea for this too, then. Deaspiration in clusters certainly sounds good.Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-21583559244756235402008-09-11T19:42:00.000-05:002008-09-11T19:42:00.000-05:00Tropylium: "OK. As an aside, are you also reconstr...<B>Tropylium: <I>"OK. As an aside, are you also reconstructing the aspiration contrast as originally about contemporary with this syncope?"</I></B><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what you mean so I'll just clarify that I think that aspiration contrasts in stops are an Proto-Aegean feature inherited and preserved by Etruscan, Lemnian and Rhaetic. That being said, word-initial consonant clusters seem to Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-2221298525538159772008-09-11T08:59:00.000-05:002008-09-11T08:59:00.000-05:00OK. As an aside, are you also reconstructing the a...OK. As an aside, are you also reconstructing the aspiration contrast as originally about contemporary with this syncope? There seems to be much flip-flopping going on in your examples.Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-20544866604358273462008-09-10T18:20:00.000-05:002008-09-10T18:20:00.000-05:00Tropylium: "You mean 'apocope', don't you? :)"Nope...<B>Tropylium: <I>"You mean 'apocope', don't you? :)"</I></B><BR/><BR/>Nope, so I guess you should spare the smiley for now :P <BR/><BR/>I don't think that the loss of vowel in Proto-Etrusco-Lemnian had only occurred in word-final position. There are a minority of words that appear to have once had stress accent on the second syllable before this change. A handy example is the Etruscan word <B>Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-26909828510907203652008-09-10T06:54:00.000-05:002008-09-10T06:54:00.000-05:00You mean "apocope", don't you? :)You mean "apocope", don't you? :)Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-22144830828823771142008-09-04T12:26:00.000-05:002008-09-04T12:26:00.000-05:00Maybe I should clarify too: While Etruscan Syncope...Maybe I should clarify too: While Etruscan Syncope is well documented, "Pre-Etruscan Syncope" is my own theory that's open to improvements.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-12385120621588570542008-09-04T12:23:00.000-05:002008-09-04T12:23:00.000-05:00Etruscan Syncope is dated to approximately 500 BCE...Etruscan Syncope is dated to approximately 500 BCE but here I'm speaking about another event of syncope, a "<I>*Pre*</I>-Etruscan Syncope", which would have affected the mother tongue of not only Etruscan but of both Rhaetic and Lemnian (the language on the Lemnos island) as well. I presume that this protolanguage, with the <I>first</I> syncope already enacted, was still spoken in Western Turkey Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-38401181453434549292008-09-03T21:00:00.000-05:002008-09-03T21:00:00.000-05:00I wonder if this is related to the loss of short w...I wonder if this is related to the loss of short word-final vowels in "Pre-Latin" (perhaps even Proto-Italic). If so, then it could actually be an areal feature.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.com