tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post2077967095467468242..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Negational particles, negational verbs and negational adverbsGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-89241764192336543962007-07-24T17:47:00.000-05:002007-07-24T17:47:00.000-05:00Yes, actually the "two-part negation", as you say,...Yes, actually the "two-part negation", as you say, occurs in every language in one way or another. For example, in English we have things like "not... ever". While the Greek negation is fascinating, it doesn't have a strong bearing on the <I>Pre-PIE</I> origins of the particle <B>*ne</B> and negational verbs.<BR/><BR/>However... Indo-European didn't just use <B>*ne</B> to negate a sentence but Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-32888855963370510002007-07-24T08:27:00.000-05:002007-07-24T08:27:00.000-05:00actually, there might have been a two-part negatio...actually, there might have been a two-part negation in PIE: ne(h1)... Hoiu, which before grammaticalization would have meant "not in (the/this/my...) life(time)". the situation in greek, where no trace of ne(h1) is found, would have been comparable to that of modern french (Hoiu > ou [/u/]).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-24479161068139049072007-06-12T10:16:00.000-05:002007-06-12T10:16:00.000-05:00>Negative ("You don't come"):>Finnish: (Sinä) et m...>Negative ("You don't come"):<BR/>>Finnish: (Sinä) et mene<BR/>>Japanese: (Anata wa)<BR/>>kimasen/konai.<BR/><BR/>> Now unless you can find a VERB<BR/>> that can entirely REPLACE the<BR/>> negative suffix in Japanese,<BR/>> as in the example above,<BR/>> Japanese doesn't really have<BR/>> negational verbs in this sense.<BR/>> And that's my point.<BR/><BR/>While it not so common, "kikaneru" is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-30348590028857119092007-06-12T09:08:00.000-05:002007-06-12T09:08:00.000-05:00No offense taken. In fact, when someone offers int...No offense taken. In fact, when someone offers interesting facts like you have, I take it as an honour and a welcome gift. However, Japanese grammar isn't like Finnish at all. In Finnish, there is <I>no choice</I> but to use a *<I>verb</I>* to negate a simple sentence.<BR/><BR/>Here's an easy test to see whether Japanese really has a "negational verb" like Finnish, as you claim:<BR/><BR/><B>Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-81597344662924596412007-06-11T19:09:00.000-05:002007-06-11T19:09:00.000-05:00No offense intended, and I know you are very knowl...No offense intended, and I know you are very knowledgeable about many languages, but Japanese is certainly not one of those. It is my native language, and also my area of research.<BR/><BR/>True, normal Japanese marks a negative with nai (< naki), zu, nu, and a few others.<BR/><BR/>However, you do need to look again at kane- < kan- (兼ねる if you like). It is a verb with the full normal verbal Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-23299426929452655342007-06-11T18:04:00.000-05:002007-06-11T18:04:00.000-05:00Hehe, nice try. Japanese does not use "negative ve...Hehe, nice try. Japanese does not use "negative verbs" to express the negative. It just uses a suffix <I>-nai</I> as your example shows.<BR/><BR/>Plus, Japanese <I>kaneru</I> (兼ねる) is normally translated into English as "to hesitate", not "cannot do". Tweaking a translation to make a verb in one language seem like a verb in the negative in some other language doesn't make it a "negational verb". Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-37856771383549677072007-06-10T20:22:00.000-05:002007-06-10T20:22:00.000-05:00Japanese has the "negational verb" kane- > kan- (兼...Japanese has the "negational verb" kane- > kan- (兼ねる) meaning "can not do". You can even negate the verb: kanenai. This expresses that something is possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com