tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post8902198399337572464..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Reinterpreting the Proto-Indo-European velar seriesGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-6699900543541050522008-02-16T06:07:00.000-06:002008-02-16T06:07:00.000-06:00David Marjanović said: "I was able to tell that so...<B>David Marjanović said: <I>"I was able to tell that something sounded a bit wrong about my coronals, but I didn't manage to figure out what."</I></B><BR/><BR/>Great story. My parents who are 'clinically monolingual' anglophones decided to enroll me in the French Immersion program and so I know the eureka one gets from realizing how to mimick another language's strange sounds. I recently was Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-12783816724876181792008-02-15T17:06:00.000-06:002008-02-15T17:06:00.000-06:00There's one thing I don't get. In northern German ...There's one thing I don't get. In northern German the coronals are apical-alveolar like in English, in southern German they are, to be fully pedantic, laminal denti-alveolar like in French, Russian and so on. (The line runs <B>perhaps</B> between Low and Middle German, though I have no real idea.) I'm Austrian, so my native coronals are "dental". I had 10 years of English at school. I was able toAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-20310256476955229002007-12-07T14:22:00.000-06:002007-12-07T14:22:00.000-06:00I'm sorry, just a self-correction: I previously st...I'm sorry, just a self-correction: I previously stated "defies <A HREF="http://www.answers.com/credulity&r=67" REL="nofollow">credulity</A>". Hahaha, I'm such a twit. I meant to say "defies <A HREF="http://www.answers.com/topic/credibility" REL="nofollow">credibility</A>". I don't know why my swiss-cheese brain mixed these two words up but I blame my coffee which was surely decaffeinated against Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-1182202432590545472007-12-06T10:34:00.000-06:002007-12-06T10:34:00.000-06:00Maybe one last note: Upon consideration however, I...Maybe one last note: Upon consideration however, I admit that when the vowel system first moved towards centralization in pre-IE (in a stage I now call "Indo-Aegean"), it's possible for palatalization to have become a phonemic feature of consonants at first. However, if this were true, we'd still have to theorize that palatal and plain stops merged to plain, leaving labialized phonemes intact by Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-45937306372042382762007-12-06T10:26:00.000-06:002007-12-06T10:26:00.000-06:00Hi Rob! Welcome! Of course I remember you.Rob: "It...Hi Rob! Welcome! Of course I remember you.<BR/><BR/><B>Rob: <I>"It seems that IE's vowel system has many indications of having descended from an earlier vertical vowel system."</I></B><BR/><BR/>Yes, precisely! However, I've been saying this for quite a while now (read my message from Dec 16, 2003: <A HREF="http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nostratic-L/message/638" REL="nofollow"><I>Re: [Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-5408943690959052672007-12-05T15:17:00.000-06:002007-12-05T15:17:00.000-06:00Hey Glen! It's your old buddy Rob from Cybalist. ...Hey Glen! It's your old buddy Rob from Cybalist. I've been following your blog pretty religiously, and now I actually have something to comment on.<BR/><BR/>Lately I've been reading about <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_vowel_system" REL="nofollow">vertical vowel systems</A>. These are well-represented in the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Caucasian_languages" Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877359715103710249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-26854586675912779462007-10-13T10:48:00.000-05:002007-10-13T10:48:00.000-05:00Phoenix: "The uvular fricative part, was about you...<B>Phoenix: <I>"The uvular fricative part, was about your comments on h2 and proto-semitic ayin in your previous post."</I></B><BR/><BR/>Oh right, yes. However the Semitic fricative was not uvular. It was a pharyngeal, further back in the mouth, and the claim I made in <A HREF="http://paleoglot.blogspot.com/2007/10/mid-indo-european-semitic-and-neolithic.html" REL="nofollow"><I>Mid Indo-European,Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-78141657554302818432007-10-13T06:20:00.000-05:002007-10-13T06:20:00.000-05:00The uvular fricative part, was about your comments...The uvular fricative part, was about your comments on h2 and proto-semitic ayin in your previous post. For some kind of reason I somehow assumed it was in this post. sorry for bringing up unnecessary confusion.<BR/><BR/>And yes, I see the funky IPA, albeit, a bit distorted. Which font do you use for IPA?<BR/><BR/>The voiced - semi-voiced - fully voiced idea is definitely a more 'natural' system, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-36701272491061737732007-10-12T10:47:00.000-05:002007-10-12T10:47:00.000-05:00Phoenix: "Nevertheless Indo-Iranian apparently did...<B>Phoenix: <I>"Nevertheless Indo-Iranian apparently did not have a problem with this, and used more marked phonemes for very basic words."</I></B><BR/><BR/>Actually, not quite. PIE <B>*ḱ</B> already became <B>*ć</B> in Proto-Indo-Iranian (PIIr). Finno-Ugric loans show us exactly what sounds PIIr had at the time. Palatalized <B>*ḱ</B> is unstable, both phonetically and within this sound system. Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-61330434192602581342007-10-12T09:26:00.000-05:002007-10-12T09:26:00.000-05:00I had to let this theory sink in for a while, befo...I had to let this theory sink in for a while, before I felt confident to say anything about it. Now I have, and I'm moderately sceptical.<BR/><BR/>One of your arguments has to do with the phonological markedness. I absolutely agree that you expect more 'natural' consonants in basic words. Nevertheless Indo-Iranian apparently did not have a problem with this, and used more marked phonemes for veryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com