tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post8723972138362302117..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Linear A treatment of consonant clustersGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-90988855963547015912012-11-10T22:06:55.976-06:002012-11-10T22:06:55.976-06:00I just dropped by after a long absence to see what...I just dropped by after a long absence to see what you might have posted recently and my eye was caught by the unexpected sight of the word "Baybayin". This is an area I have been researching in detail over the past three years. Perhaps a bit more about the script's non-spelling of coda consonants would be of some use. <br /><br />This is actually inherited from South Sulawesi, Kiwehtinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07831448036496196819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-9347485284893576452012-10-29T17:34:55.751-05:002012-10-29T17:34:55.751-05:00Thanks, Richard. I was aware of the Baybayin scrip...Thanks, Richard. I was aware of the <a href="http://www.mts.net/~pmorrow/bayeng1.htm#final" rel="nofollow">Baybayin script</a> but not of this detail.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-26330101223870449492012-10-24T18:54:36.190-05:002012-10-24T18:54:36.190-05:001) Are you aware that the Baybayin writing system ...1) Are you aware that the Baybayin writing system of the Philippines regularly omitted all final consonants? The initial Spanish attempts to add a vowel-canceller to the system failed. Thus, dropping code-final consonants does not need much of an incentive.<br /><br />2) /st/ has a strong tendency to behave as a single consonant. For example, the best attested initial consonant cluster in Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10215016408458655804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-9222845278709804652009-11-25T06:47:48.832-06:002009-11-25T06:47:48.832-06:00Tropylium: "Not at all. Close vowels naturall...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Not at all. Close vowels naturally encourage a release with the tongue closer to the palate, ie. with more friction.</i></b><br /><br />That's correct.<br /><br /><b><i>"Back vowels in general however, as you propose, do not."</i></b><br /><br />No, I never proposed that [+back] was the <i>cause</i>, as you can see when you reread what you misread.<br /><br />Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-32275358622897377132009-11-25T04:40:29.580-06:002009-11-25T04:40:29.580-06:00If Minoan had coda *s or allowed onset clusters, w...<em>If Minoan had coda *s or allowed onset clusters, we lose a sensible reason for the over-restrictive rules against all these very things in Linear B!</em><br /><br />This is a point; but against *st, not for *ts. And appealing to variation in substitutions of <em>foreign</em> sound patterns does not help you to estabilish any expectation for an unmotivated substitution of a nativly-occurring Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-5268524868597782862009-11-23T16:06:49.047-06:002009-11-23T16:06:49.047-06:00Egad, I missed an important issue here:
"If ...Egad, I missed an important issue here:<br /><br /><b><i>"If you want a nonsegmental feature interpretable as a cluster, one possibility that doesn't impose on the estabilish'd sound laws of Greek is preaspiration: /pajto/ [pʰajʰto]?"</i></b><br /><br />To pursue this end, I'd recommend explaining the rules behind this alleged preaspiration, particularly since in your Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-73532104762250158452009-11-23T16:04:00.633-06:002009-11-23T16:04:00.633-06:00By the way, I can do nothing about Blogger's p...By the way, I can do nothing about Blogger's paranoid restrictions on HTML, sorry. For superscript symbols, try unicode symbols instead. <a href="http://weston.ruter.net/projects/ipa-chart/view/keyboard/" rel="nofollow">Googling for "Online IPA keyboards" helps tremendously.</a>Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-80102491385717213322009-11-23T16:01:57.015-06:002009-11-23T16:01:57.015-06:00Tropylium: "What sleeve are you pulling this ...<b>Tropylium: <i>"What sleeve are you pulling this metathesis *ts > /st/ from?"</i></b><br /><br />The same sleeve which bases its conclusions on reality. It's an uncontestable <i>fact</i> that loanwords from a particular foreign language, while showing regular sound rules between the donor and recipient language <i>*overall*</i>, need not in any particular case conform to these Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-71965953005611447022009-11-23T13:34:01.160-06:002009-11-23T13:34:01.160-06:00What sleeve are you pulling this metathesis *ts &g...What sleeve are you pulling this metathesis *ts > /st/ from? I thought Proto-Greek *ts (from pre-Greek *kj, *kʰj) normally yields /ss/ or /tt/, depending on the dialect.<br /><br />(Independantly, [tso] being the regular realization of /to/ doesn't fly as a free assumption either — a non-close back vowel is about the least likely to trigger affrication.)<br /><br />If you want a Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.com