tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post797154133757693503..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Laryngeal abuse - Phonemes caught in the reconstructive crossfireGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-35530422699362635992008-11-27T06:29:00.000-06:002008-11-27T06:29:00.000-06:00If I may intercede again, aren't you two arguing d...If I may intercede again, aren't you two arguing different issues? Original long vowels (<EM>not</EM> deriving from consonants) vs. derivation of laryngeals from other consonants before their later demise?<BR/><BR/>And yes, proposed IE cognates for Uralic *x are many, but usually proposed as loans. I won't strain Glen's comments section for this topic tho, you probably plan on raising it back at Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-52679071242990737302008-11-26T17:47:00.000-06:002008-11-26T17:47:00.000-06:00"From what I see, in the specific case of Uralic, ...<B>"From what I see, in the specific case of Uralic, it would actually help by explaining away long vowels and reducing the language to CV syllables."</B><BR/><BR/>Oops, forgot to address this point. PU has plenty of well established internal clusters so I'm not sure what the advantage is of assuming only CV syllables. If we assume these arose from some kind of syncope on the second syllable thenMordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-79501903851168737682008-11-26T17:36:00.000-06:002008-11-26T17:36:00.000-06:00One thing that's important to note is that *x is a...One thing that's important to note is that *x is always followed by *i or by a consonant followed by *i. Intervocally *p and *k appear before *a, but not *i (though there are exceptions in Finno-Ugric). <BR/><BR/>Internal clusters of Cl are rare. Only *p, *k, *r, *w, and *x followed by *l are attested. The combination *rl appears in one word with an uncertain following vowel. This word is limitedMordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-58341774459992226022008-11-26T00:59:00.000-06:002008-11-26T00:59:00.000-06:00Mordrigar: "Uralic might be another case of Laryng...<B>Mordrigar: <I>"Uralic might be another case of Laryngeal Abuse. The PU laryngeal occurs in very restricted environments and from what I can tell occurs in complementary distribution with *p, *k, *l, *r, and *j."</I></B><BR/><BR/>I'd like to argue on that point with you. From what I see, in the specific case of Uralic, it would actually <I>help</I> by explaining away long vowels and reducing Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-4544365000579497412008-11-23T18:49:00.000-06:002008-11-23T18:49:00.000-06:00Uralic might be another case of Laryngeal Abuse. T...Uralic might be another case of Laryngeal Abuse. The PU laryngeal occurs in very restricted environments and from what I can tell occurs in complementary distribution with *p, *k, *l, *r, and *j.Mordrigarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15905659012488502823noreply@blogger.com