tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post2767643101774143283..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Never judge a book by its nom de plumeGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-55892575314377719162008-07-23T18:19:00.000-05:002008-07-23T18:19:00.000-05:00I think, Brian, you're being too analytical here. ...I think, Brian, you're being too analytical here. If the word is attributable to PIE, it would be <B>*h2elu-t-</B>, created with a noun formant <B>*-t-</B> attached to the aforementioned adjectival root <A HREF="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8kV3JUunPR8C&pg=PA133&vq=%22h2elu-%22&source=gbs_search_s&sig=ACfU3U1D95vIH7UGOujfLPF8cDFMclG81w" REL="nofollow">*h2elu-</A> "bitter". <BR/><BR/>Naturally,Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-31040398977039852672008-07-23T17:28:00.000-05:002008-07-23T17:28:00.000-05:00The ancient meaning of "ale" can be corroborated b...<B><I>The ancient meaning of "ale" can be corroborated by the Baltic "alus" and Finnic "olut", both meaning simply "beer",</I></B><BR/><BR/>First, are these words native to these respective languages or borrowings from Germanic? I ask because if they are borrowings (and Baltic and Finnish have borrowed a great deal from Germanic), we need to determine when said borrowings took place. Beer, as we Brian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-36201805445146569332008-07-23T01:37:00.000-05:002008-07-23T01:37:00.000-05:00The ancient meaning of "ale" can be corroborated b...The ancient meaning of "ale" can be corroborated by the Baltic "alus" and Finnic "olut", both meaning simply "beer", both still apparently retaining a reflex of the lost *-θ. (My etymological dictionary suggests an Iranic origin as also possible for the latter, but the lack of cognates in Permic etc. languages makes this seem dubious.)Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-61041110992770389252008-07-22T05:33:00.000-05:002008-07-22T05:33:00.000-05:00Hey Glen,Not that I am trying to beat a dead horse...Hey Glen,<BR/><BR/>Not that I am trying to beat a dead horse here, but the connections between the Germanic word "alu" and the modern word "ale" are strained at best. There is also the possibility of it being a form of "*aluh" (amulet, talisman) form the stem *alh "to protect". This theory fits in nicely with the extant finds and seems to support the Rhaettic "dedication" to set dwn (as in to setBrian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-1020993578673425912008-07-21T17:24:00.000-05:002008-07-21T17:24:00.000-05:00Brian Damage: "I am not saying ALU was borrowed fr...<B>Brian Damage: <I>"I am not saying ALU was borrowed from Germanic, but that it was borrowed by the Germanic speaking peoples."</I></B><BR/><BR/>Aaaah, now I see. Then this is a different assumption to test.<BR/><BR/>If Rhaetic is an Etruscan-related language, there's nothing I know of in Etruscan to connect <B>alu</B> to "ale". As I said, my best guess of its meaning based on Etruscan would be Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-89340415106142793432008-07-21T16:38:00.000-05:002008-07-21T16:38:00.000-05:00Here you are pursuing the idea that alu somehow *m...<B><I>Here you are pursuing the idea that alu somehow *must* be a borrowed Germanic word.</I></B><BR/><BR/>I must have failed in presenting my idea. I am not saying ALU was borrowed from Germanic, but that it was borrowed by the Germanic speaking peoples. <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately I do not speak or even pretend to understand Agean languages, so I am unable to translate or even hypothesize what the Brian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-25059455693701510922008-07-21T16:29:00.000-05:002008-07-21T16:29:00.000-05:00The strength of a theory is judged by how many ass...The strength of a theory is judged by how many assumptions are made ex nihilo. Preferably, we should have zero such assumptions however sometimes assumptions cannot be helped. The point is that we don't try to push our luck. We must feel logically responsible to <A HREF="http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/occamraz.html" REL="nofollow"><I>Occam's Razor</I></A>.<BR/><BR/>Here you are pursuing the idea that <Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-90920476665686410022008-07-21T16:09:00.000-05:002008-07-21T16:09:00.000-05:00I am of the mind that the word (and more important...I am of the mind that the word (and more importantly the habit of inscribing it) was introduced into Germanic culture through the assimilation of Rhaettic speaking peoples into their tribes and territories. I totally accept a possible Rhaettic origin to the word, and ultimately an Etruscan origin. This is what I am trying to find evidence of, and with your analysis of "(it) is set down" and now Brian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-35923970319546435892008-07-21T15:45:00.000-05:002008-07-21T15:45:00.000-05:00Besides a single word, is there any particular rea...Besides a single word, is there any particular reason why you think that this is related at all to Germanic? And how on earth would Porkorny's Germanic root <A HREF="http://ehl.santafe.edu/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/ie/germet&text_number=++++51&root=config" REL="nofollow"><B>*alúɵ-</B> "ale"</A> (from PIE <A HREF="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8kV3JUunPR8C&pg=PA133&vq=%Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-50261744738039156952008-07-21T14:49:00.000-05:002008-07-21T14:49:00.000-05:00what really bothers me is that I found the Raettic...what really bothers me is that I found the Raettic Alu connection and the Germanic Alu connection long before Macleod wrote her book. I suppose she beat me to the punch. Ugh...Brian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-83310580175370847882008-07-21T14:46:00.000-05:002008-07-21T14:46:00.000-05:00Hence my answer is simply al-u "(it) is set down"....<B><I>Hence my answer is simply al-u "(it) is set down".</I></B><BR/><BR/>Now that is very interesting. If we posit that Germanic "alu" is a metonym for amuletic magic, as does Mindy Macleod (Runic Amulets and Magical Objects) and also keep in mind Stephen Flowers theory (based on Duwel's) that runic "magical inscriptions" are physical forms of operant vocal formulations (from his article "How ToBrian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-73293249272686577912008-07-21T14:31:00.000-05:002008-07-21T14:31:00.000-05:00By the way, the same verb form appears to be prese...By the way, the same verb form appears to be present in <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/adolfozavaroni/bolzano.htm" REL="nofollow"><I>Schum Vn 1</I></A>: <B>lavisie lavise alu<BR/></B>.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-27214011707564794272008-07-21T14:17:00.000-05:002008-07-21T14:17:00.000-05:00As you've discovered, Rhaetic is a very obscure la...As you've discovered, Rhaetic is a very obscure language, seldom studied in depth nor by a wealth of people.<BR/><BR/><B>Brian Damage: <I>"Now all I need is help with the Rhaetic vocabulary. You don't know anyone who understands it, do you?"</I></B><BR/><BR/>I think we're on our own on this one. However I can offer an alternative hypothesis of <B>alu</B> that might interest you. <BR/><BR/>I Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-76274499468291577702008-07-21T08:57:00.000-05:002008-07-21T08:57:00.000-05:00Glenn,No worries, I am glad you bothered to look i...Glenn,<BR/><BR/>No worries, I am glad you bothered to look into things and see that I am for real. I really enjoyed your piece/rant, and I am especially excited that you have an interest in Rhaetic language. I have been struggling for some time just to find someone who knows what Rhaetic is, and who is willing to discuss it with a neophyte linguist. My investigations have centered around one Brian Damagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04966940128332674165noreply@blogger.com