tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post2752494648028951447..comments2023-09-24T05:45:23.811-05:00Comments on Paleoglot: Edward Sapir and the Philistine headdressGlen Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-65146269085660412822010-08-19T23:06:00.962-05:002010-08-19T23:06:00.962-05:00Tropylium: Here's a fact: by far most loanword...<b>Tropylium: <i>Here's a fact: by far most loanwords [...] contain in most languages they're found in no random distortions of mishearing"</i></b><br /><br /><b>Opinion used as fact.</b> Read <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=d9ZI7C1WhHwC&pg=PA158&lpg=PA158&dq=%22By+their+nature,+errors+of+perception+are+more+likely+to+be+random+than+errors+of+production,+a+fact+Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-12437824268438483732010-08-19T13:01:36.758-05:002010-08-19T13:01:36.758-05:00(^Holy multipost, Batman!)
according to Loprieno,...(^Holy multipost, Batman!)<br /><br /><em>according to <b>Loprieno, Ancient Egyptian: A linguistic introduction (1995), p.31</b> which places *d > *ʕ in Egyptian prehistory.</em><br /><br />Ah, I see, that's clearer than Woodard's book — the one you link'd under your kithara post — which goes with simply "before Middle Egyptian" (seemingly implying "after or during Tropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-87851458693866033772010-08-13T21:57:38.430-05:002010-08-13T21:57:38.430-05:00Tropylium: "I'm suspicious of any loan et...<b>Tropylium: <i>"I'm suspicious of any loan etymology that involves mishearing a sequence that exists in the receiving languages as well (ie. /aw(p)/), especially if it's supposed to have gone two opposite ways."</i></b><br /><br />Let's not infect rational debate with impressions based on nothing but factless suspicions and assumptions.<br /><br /><i>All</i> loanwords Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-58383508426474763232010-08-13T21:57:24.958-05:002010-08-13T21:57:24.958-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-74213529019541909272010-08-13T21:57:02.762-05:002010-08-13T21:57:02.762-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-36750051479491423572010-08-13T21:56:23.643-05:002010-08-13T21:56:23.643-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-41834391206299593762010-08-13T21:55:24.567-05:002010-08-13T21:55:24.567-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-72866006398931167222010-08-13T21:55:15.877-05:002010-08-13T21:55:15.877-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-40972252559508047692010-08-13T21:54:54.556-05:002010-08-13T21:54:54.556-05:00Tropylium: "Well, Old Kingdom, but I don'...<b>Tropylium: <i>"Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection."</i></b><br /><br />False, according to <a href="http://books.google.ca/books?id=8Onqc1llLRoC&pg=PA31&dq=%22the+prehistory+of+egyptian+phonology%22+%22in+the+apical+and+interdental+series,+voiced%22&hl=en&ei=r_llTMDTBKDtnQeDrYyJDA&sa=X&oiGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-54485937306173938432010-08-13T10:39:13.353-05:002010-08-13T10:39:13.353-05:00The Egyptian soundlaw is, as far as I know, a Pre-...<em>The Egyptian soundlaw is, as far as I know, a Pre-Egyptian soundlaw and so wouldn't be significant here.</em><br /><br />Well, Old Kingdom, but I don't see anything to put a date on this supposed Minoan-Philistine connection.<br /><br />Also the change in this word wouldn't have to have occur'd in Egyptian itself, the change may have spred to other languages of the area. ThereTropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-90474638205264775572010-08-11T20:07:04.478-05:002010-08-11T20:07:04.478-05:00I should address this last comment: "I don...I should address this last comment: <b><i>"I don't see how Greek /kupto/ fits in. Why loss of /a/ here but loss of /u/ in Latin?"</i></b><br /><br />A sequence like [kawp] could easily be misheard as [kap] in Latin if [w] is perceived as merely the [+labial] feature of the following [p].<br /><br />Greek <i>kúpto</i> on the other hand would be the result of [aw] being misheard as [uGlen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-36945478685355114452010-08-10T12:46:46.566-05:002010-08-10T12:46:46.566-05:00The Egyptian soundlaw is, as far as I know, a Pre-...The Egyptian soundlaw is, as far as I know, a Pre-Egyptian soundlaw and so wouldn't be significant here. I wonder if <b>*kopatˤ</b> would be a more apt reconstruction considering that I already have been reasoning for a while now that Minoan <b>*θ</b> is from earlier <b>*tˤ</b> anyway.Glen Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02440249042894225949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7202150793869184289.post-58317726311505254392010-08-10T07:47:34.168-05:002010-08-10T07:47:34.168-05:00Semites, Hittites or some other intermediary might...<em>Semites, Hittites or some other intermediary might perhaps have misheard the voiced dental fricative /ð/ as a voiced pharyngeal fricative /ʕ/ (ie. ayin) or a voiced glottal /ɦ/.</em><br /><br />Surely /d/ or /z/ would be the expected substitute in Semitic, but the Egyptian soundlaw /d/ > /ʕ/ seems relevant here.<br /><br />I don't see how Greek /kupto/ fits in. Why loss of /a/ here butTropyliumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12113202845911582040noreply@blogger.com